Penny: “We have no experience winning… we don’t know what it feels like… so it’s hard to close out games” – VCT EMEA Stage 2 Interview

Winless Apeks have struggled to find their footing all year in VCT EMEA, failing to claim a single win in 2025 so far. With only two group games left in Stage two, the side desperately needs results to stand any chance at avoiding relegation. Recent matches have seen them show much more fight, including a 2-1 loss to Team Liquid that could’ve easily ended in Apeks’ favour had a handful more rounds gone their way. After the Liquid defeat, Hotspawn spoke to Apeks’ newly-added duelist Erik “penny” Penny for an interview.

Hotspawn: An unfortunate loss today, but another match where Apeks has shown some fight and looks capable to finding a win.

What are your thoughts on the series?

Penny: I mean, the last two games have been pretty much the same. We’ve been so close to taking both these last two games, but at the end of the day, we lost, you know? So I guess the takeaway is that we can win, it’s just [that] we haven’t. And I think something that has to do with that is that we have no experience winning — we don’t know what it feels like. So it’s hard to close out games when you don’t know what it feels like to win.

It looked like the momentum was in your favour after edging map two, but map three was much more one-sided for TL.

Do you think that lack of winning experience played a part in that final map?

I think they just had a better understanding of how to play the map than we did, and it just completely showed that game.

Today saw the debut of double duelist Apeks, something people have been calling for for a while.

What are your thoughts on playing double duelist? Do you think it suits Apeks?

I would say it suits us because of the roles. We don’t have the most perfect role situation in the team, and for me personally, I don’t have any experience playing with double duelist. I’s been new to me and a bit harder for me to play because I’m used to having two initiators, or more util just for me as a duelist. So it’s definitely taking a bit of adjusting for me.

But I think overall there are characters that our team is more forced to play because of the roles. And I think the double duelist is definitely more in our style.

You’ve joined an Apeks team that has been struggling all year, failing to win a match so far.

Was there any hesitation in joining given their situation?

There was definitely a lot of hesitation at first. I had a few chances to go to tier one, post-Liquid and before that as well, but some of those didn’t end up turning out because of some decision I made and also a lot of unfortunate things happened. But yeah, at first I definitely hesitated to take the offer.

But when I really sat down and thought about it, there was no difference between playing in tier two at home to playing here. It’s just [that] I want to get my name back out there on the stage and play. And I’m confident — regardless of results — I’m confident in myself enough that I can get a performance that says that I’m still good. I can play against these big teams in EMEA and I can still give a decent showing for myself. I think that was important for me.

How have you found Berlin so far?

To be honest, half my family is from the UK, so I’ve already known what like in Europe is like with the transportation systems and all this. And I do feel really comfortable here.

The only thing that makes it not as enjoyable for me is I don’t speak German, like at all. Since I’ve been here I’ve learned a few phrases that have helped me. And I think the people have definitely appreciated that — they appreciate when you try and speak German to them. But the city’s really nice, downtown especially. I went there on my off day and I had a lot of fun.

The only really poor thing that’s happened to me is I got food poisoning here and that was quite a bad experience. It was, like, top five worst experiences in my life. But I just got over that a few days ago and I’ve been fine ever since.

Playing at Toronto, it didn’t seem like there was much expectation for you to perform particularly well, given you were a tier two player subbing for a star like nAts at a global event. At the same time, it was a great chance for you to showcase your ability on a big stage in the hopes that a tier one move could follow.

How did you find the pressure playing at Masters? How was it joining in that scenario?

For me personally, I haven’t felt any pressure playing this game in a couple of years, since I’ve been younger. I think I’ve really grown more confident in myself, and I think I’ve grown because obviously before I was younger — I’m 22 now.

I think I’ve learned from a lot of decisions I’ve made in the past and it’s just built a nice self-confidence. So I don’t feel pressure. It’s more [that] I’m confident and just excited to be there and play, and I’m grateful for all the opportunities I get. So yeah, there’s no pressure.

And honestly, we just played Liquid, but I love those guys. They’re all great guys, you know, it was really easy to be integrated and play with them. And obviously now I’m still friends with them.

Though you weren’t there very long, was there anything you picked up that you were able to use against TL today?

For sure. I knew a few of their tendencies, like little things. Especially a few things nAts likes to call, because I was playing with him and obviously he’s gonna call the same things while I’m there and in the games after.

You were a player competing in tier two for a number of years, though you’ve shown now that you’re a capable tier one player. That said, it seems that you got a shot back in tier one partly down to the random ‘luck’ of nAts’ visa issues.

Do you feel there are a lot of players in tier two who deserve that chance but aren’t getting any?

I would say it’s the other way around. I think there’s a lot of players in tier one that aren’t exceptional, and they could be replaced with tier two players and it would be the same level. I think it’s more the fact that everyone’s skill level is just so close, and the only deciding factor on who’s good and who’s not is the team-play in the IGL.

For example, I feel personally if I played in another top team in EMEA or NA, and I play instead of their duelist, the level of their team would not change. And I think you could say the same with a few players as well.

So I think the level between tier one and two is really not that big. And it’s just [that] the deciding factor, like I said, is just the team-play and the IGL, and how you can unlock these people.

Apeks needs to reach VCT EMEA Stage 2 playoffs to avoid automatic relegation, and your final two games are against KOI — also on zero wins — and Fnatic.

How important is that game against KOI next week?

We’ve just been trying to win every game. I think the overall pressure on the team kind of dropped because of the past results. There’s not been a single win from Apeks this year. Although this split especially we’ve been really close to two wins, and even against NAVI, I think if we played a different map we were more prepared for in map 3, it would have been a different story on that map as well.

But I think everyone at this point just wants to win, just to prove people wrong. Just get one win and see if we can build on it.

You revealed to me just before the interview that you’re a Tottenham Hotspur fan.

Would you have sacked Ange Postecoglou this summer?

I think if you’d get Thomas Frank, you probably would have. He’s a pretty good manager. If there was not a better option, I probably would have left him.