FLY Bwipo: “I think our biggest problem [was] no one had any teamplay to rely on.”

The Worlds 2025 journey for FlyQuest and Bwipo has come to an abrupt end. The LTA #1 seed wasn’t able to repeat its feat from last year and was knocked out by CFO in the last elimination series. We had a long chat with Bwipo after the series, talking about why FLY struggled this time around, what’s next for him, and what he thinks is still causing the gap between East and West.

Editor’s note: this is probably the longest interview I’ve ever done in the esports space. I know Bwipo loves speaking his mind but opening up after this result is still a tough pill to swallow. Hopefully, you’ll enjoy the interview as much as I did.

Davide: First of all, I’m sorry that the journey to Worlds ends here.

What’s your mind right now?

Bwipo: I just feel sorry for the fans and my teammates because I threw the G2 series. I think I was in excellent positions to carry the game and I wasn’t able to convert, especially game three. Yeah, Game two, I also played pretty poorly, so my team didn’t have much of a chance to even play the game there.

So, you know, it’s hard not to focus on that and feel really bad because I definitely had the most agency in that game. I think game 1 today, I also could have fully carried the game if I didn’t make some key mistakes. So yeah, that’s what I’m focused on. I think that there’s not much else on my mind, just that [it] really sucks.

Davide: What were some of the things that you guys discussed after the G2 series? Inspired said on broadcast that you guys were struggling with scrims as well and the whole gameplay looked rushed; you guys looked very impatient.

Can you walk me through a little bit about that?

Bwipo: I think, somewhere along the line as a team, our culture changed into being less of a team and more about playing well individually. Not [having] much direction, just spawn on the rift and play well. And rather than finding solutions to help each other, it was your individual responsibility to just play better.

Davide: In what aspects specifically?

Bwipo: All encompassing. If your laning phase was poor, it’s your responsibility to fix it. If you played a team fight poorly or there was an angle that you missed and it’s your fault, you know, you need to fix that. Anything, everything.

There just wasn’t much that people could rely on as a set play. Basically, I think our biggest problem [was] no one had any teamplay to rely on.

It was all just you play every situation individually well and if you don’t, then it’s review, review, review, talk about how every individual player can approach the fight better. [We would] look what everyone [could] individually do better, but zero team-oriented discussions about what we want to do, how we want to do it, etc. So I think that was in my opinion our biggest problem.

Davide: You played against both Driver and Rest today. I think this is your first time going against them this year, despite both of you showing up on multiple international tournaments.

What do you think about the top side duo that you faced today?

Bwipo: I think Driver had a really unfortunate game. Their lane swap went poorly. They paused because I’m guessing they wanted to tower dive me top lane before four minutes, but they couldn’t. And then when the clock hit four minutes, I’m guessing he still got the notification that lane swap protection was on, but it wasn’t a bug because if Xin Zhao took that tower shot with lane swap protection, he would have died.

So I knew what was going on. They were very upset that they couldn’t dive me, I think, because they knew the lane swap was really cooked in game 1 after that. So I was pretty happy with how we played our lane swap. But [it’s] hard to judge someone when you spawn in a full level down and, like, down 20 CS. Like he walks in top lane, does the walk of shame, back to lane to top lane after using his TP bot and losing so much.

I can’t really judge Driver, unfortunately, off that game, [but] I definitely didn’t group as much as maybe I should have. I created some good opportunities, but I don’t think it was his fault. And then Rest, they stylistically had a different team environment [and] team approach.

I moved to the grubs and he stays, takes two tower plates, creates an advantage for himself and plays his own game on Rek’Sai. Stylistically, it was nice to see from the VODs that I watched, Driver was the guy that would move around and help his team secure objectives. So whenever they wanted to play a draft or they felt like they needed a little bit more help in the 4v4, they would play Driver. And then if they felt like their 4v4 was in a good spot, they would play Rest, [trying] to accumulate resources and carry the game.

I think it makes it easier on the two individual top laners to play their own style, not [having] to worry about being flexible and play both [styòes]. But I do think in best-of-fives, it tends to be a bigger problem in Fearless for them because as the champion pools get pinched, it’s harder to select the champion that will always accomplish that. But the draft strategy of giving away Sion so he can play the Rek’Sai and have that strategy for him was intelligent. So props to CFO, I think both their top laners are pretty good.

Davide: Were you happy about the drafts? Because, from my perspective, it gave me the impression that BO3 and BO1s were a lot more focused about getting good frontlines and then having two strong carries. It seemed like you still tried to do that in the series, but also kind of shift towards an aggressive [comp] with the Qiyana and Lucian Nami in the bottom lane.

I know it was later countered by the Draven, but was it something that you guys specifically prepared or was it something that you guys decided realized in between the series?

Bwipo: You know, I had a lot of arguments about our champion picks and  the way we approached the game from draft in the first few weeks leading up from our bootcamp all the way to week 1 of Worlds. I’ve said what I’m going to tell you right now.

When you go to the World Championship, you play Worlds, you have a minimum of four games. You get to play two best-of-ones, one best-of-three minimum. If you win, you earn more games. I told my team, very simply, [that] four games is not many. You need to, for your own self as an individual, talk to your coaches and your teammates, if you want to, and you need to pick champions that you feel like when you go home at the end of your event, whether it’s 4 games, 6 games, 10 games, 12 games, you need to be at peace because you played the characters that you believe in and you play the champions that you think are your best bet at winning.

I didn’t feel like some of the characters we selected, even though we ended up selecting them in our run-up until the bootcamp, I did not feel like they were the right characters. But at the end of the day, if my teammates look me dead in the eyes and tell me, ‘no, I still want to play this, I believe in this’, what kind of teammate would I be if I didn’t let them?

So I put all my faith in them and I tried my very best. I think had I carried the game three against G2 like I was supposed to, they would have been able to go to quarters and maybe we would have been able to have more time to adjust our pools, maybe not. Maybe we go quarters and play the same characters and go home, I don’t know. But at the end of the day, that’s always going to be my advice for any teammates and, you know, any players. I think a lot of people don’t think about that. They don’t think about the third person point of view, it’s a privilege to play at Worlds. You really need to feel like the characters you lock in are like this right here (points at heart). This is what I came here to do, to play these champions.

Davide: Obviously, it doesn’t feel good to be eliminated at this point in time because last year you were actually the ones who made it through.

Do you still think there were some positive memories that you can take away from this Worlds?

Bwipo: [It] was a very stressful one, as always. You know, Worlds are super stressful. [It’s] hard for me because like I said, I think I had the opportunity to make great memories and I kind of missed them.

Obviously, outside of the game, [we would be] hanging out with the team and going out for walks. There’s a mall nearby our hotel, so for lunch and dinner, we would go for a walk, get food, come back and get some ice cream. We did that very regularly. And, you know, it’s those interpersonal moments where you’re spending time not just with teammates, but the people that you work with as humans.

You’re not colleagues in those situations, like you really are just friends. So I think that’s the highlight for me at the end of the day. Obviously I would have liked to say that our series against G2 and winning was the highlight, but I was the sole reason we lost those games, so that’s the reality of being a competitor. You’re going to have series where you look good, you play well, you’re going to have series where you are the reason your team loses. I think it’s a matter of time and it sucks. But that’s competition to your mind.

Do you feel the responsibility and, I guess the guilt, the pressure and all the weight across you? How do you deal with it usually?

Bwipo: I think guilt is a big part of it.

Davide: But do you embrace it?

Bwipo: Oh, I mean, I embrace it. I’ve been playing for what six years. I tell everyone this:

I am a player that thrives in structure, where I can create chaos. So when I know what’s happening and I can close my eyes and I know what’s happening on the map, I can get creative and do a lot of good things. When I don’t know what’s going on, I feel the need to create things because I don’t see the angles. I force them because I don’t see what’s going to happen. And I feel the responsibility and burden to do that. That’s a very bad thing, and that’s my weakest part as a player.

I definitely think being a veteran and having played for six years, this is not a trait I should still have, but at the same time, it’s what makes me fearless, you know. If I see an angle, I’ll play it no matter what. I do think this is the main reason why I’ve not been able to evolve past being a contender. And I think these last two years in NA, I think I was much better at it. Credit to the staff, credit to the players for giving me that comfort. But I think that when I actually felt the pressure, like against G2 and against T1, I think these matches definitely showed me that I still have a long way to go. And, yeah, [I] gotta work on that.

Davide: I know that your contract is expiring at the end of the season.

Do you have already an idea of what you want to do next? What’s next for you?

Bwipo: I’ve spent four years in America, four years in Europe. I’m open to either. For me, there’s pros and cons to both. International success will always be at the forefront of my decision. I really believe going internationally and making the fans proud is a responsibility I took upon myself when I decided to join Fnatic in 2018, which was, at the time, the best team in Europe and the best team in the West.

I’ve tried to live up to that standard for every single year that I’ve competed and it’s definitely made me. It stressed the shit out of me. Of course it’s been tough, but it’s also been really fun. It’ so much more fun when you make a good play, people are gonna celebrate it and when you make a bad play, people are gonna laugh at you. That kind of pressure is something that I really love. I have definitely got a little bit of a narcissistic hero complex going on there where it’s like ‘I want to be there’. I want to be that guy.

I f*****g hate it when a different player gets to have that moment. It’s not a good thing, maybe, but I’d like to think I did a good job over the years overall. I think I can definitely do better this year. But one thing’s for sure, I’d really like to play again. I missed one year in 2023, [but] I’d like to play again. On another note, I think, honestly, I wouldn’t have minded if Gagkos got to play the series because I really think he was ready. I watched him play a lot of solo queue, [I] talk to him a lot, working with him back home.

How has it has it been the relationship with you guys?

Bwipo: It’s been really good. You know, he put in a lot of effort. And it’s funny because after the G2 series, he was sitting me down and telling me exactly what I was teaching him the whole summer split, ‘Bro, you know, you gotta just farm, make sure you don’t make mistakes. Like, you’re in a really good spot. You gotta drive that home’.

And he’s 100% right. That’s when I realized the kid’s ready so I’m sad I couldn’t give him an opportunity to play on the big stage and prove everyone that he was ready, because I have 100% faith that he is.

Davide: There’s always been the talk about the gap between the regions, especially the West and East at Worlds. Considering that G2 is making it through, the fact that you guys made it through last year, the general consensus seems like that the gap is shrinking.

Do you agree with the statement? What’s the one thing that the West is still lacking to get to where it wants?

Bwipo: Well, I think that the only gap that really shrank is the 3rd and 4th seeds from LPL-LCK are beatable for Western teams. I’d have to watch, you know, MKOI take down T1, or G2 take down T1 or Gen.G. I mean they are the fourth seed but an exception in T1 here, you know.

Davide: Even 100Thieves yesterday, [it was] closer than I think we expected. And also VKS-BLG.

Bwipo: No, no, for sure. Yeah, 100% agree with you. To get into the technicalities, I think I believe teams that have feats of strength with like a 2,000 or 3,000 gold lead have an insane win rate or something. That’s what I heard anyway, like a 90% plus win rate. If you could find a way, anything lucky happens in your game, anything goes your way, tou manage to get feats of strength because you won a grubs fight that snowballs into, you know, something good. You get three kills, [then] suddenly those kills translate into tower plates. You take first tower, you get feats of strength. You have a gold lead as well. Looks like it was a pretty big deal this Worlds. I think a lot of teams have really high emphasis on Feats of Strength because of this, because the boots upgrade are very powerful.

So I definitely think that it makes sense to me that the gap is a bit closed. I definitely think, from a game balance perspective, there’s a lot of those gameplay levers that make the game a lot more breathable. Because I think that the gap was always the largest in mid game and like mid to late game team fighting.

I feel like most teams that were able to compete did not crumble in the laning phase. If I think back to 2018, 2019, 2020, our best years from Europe’s perspective, at least. I think the reason why people couldn’t overcome the hurdle is because [of] the stress of playing at that level for that long. I think Asian professional players are acclimated to playing the highest level of league the whole year through.

Do you think Western players should get more accustomed to actually dealing with that pressure?

Bwipo: It’s just like in the fighting game, it’s called mental stack. As a match goes on because there’s so many options. So if I’m playing a fighting game, you can either block, I can attack you, or I can grab you and you can either block or you can jump or you can whatever, right?

The point is, as a match goes on, the mind game you play [keeps on stacking]. And you play that mind game so many times out in a row, and, at some point, there’s a lot of mental stack. Now, don’t get me wrong. I might be explaining it wrong, but I believe the concept is correct.

The point is that it stacks over months and months of playing until Worlds. You bootcamp, you come here. That mental stack of playing against players that just make better decisions, on average, every single game you play, especially in scrims, is a reason why, for example, against G2, I was mentally stacked. I needed to lose a game and lose that series to be able to come back to myself and play a better game the next game. That cost us Worlds. and I feel terrible about it, but the reality of the matter is that every single world run I’ve played, I didn’t even realize how mentally stacked I was until I lost, and then I kind of could put the weight down. Always.

Davide: I feel like it always comes down at the last moment, though.

Bwipo: Well, usually it was actually in week 1, because, for me, if you think back to Fnatic Week 1 and Week 2, a lot of people have made memes about that back in the day, but it was true. It was just the reality of it. You came into the bootcamp, you’re just so mentally stacked from trying to catch up with scrims.

And then when you actually got to play on stage and you saw the level that was being displayed, you’re like, ‘I can do this’. Even though we lost, I feel like we can win anyway. And, yeah, I guess the T1 game wasn’t enough for me. So, unfortunately, after that loss, I would have hoped I’d be able to lock in and make it happen against G2, but I needed that loss against G2 to lock back in for the CFO series. And I think I had a decent performance today. Nothing special, but it wasn’t enough.

Anything you want to share? We’re unfortunately running out of time.

Bwipo: A special thank you to Wang Hao. He was a Chinese fan that added me on the [Chinese] super server and he really encouraged me. I call him by name because he told he was orphaned and didn’t have much going on in his life.

But he told me that watching me play get excited and happy made him believe in people again. I don’t know how true that is but I took him for his word because I really felt it came from the heart. So wherever you are, I just want you to know I tried extra hard because of you.

Davide: Thank you very much. I really appreciate for getting the time to talk with me. I wish you good luck for the rest. Hopefully we’ll catch each other once like again in the near future.